DadWagon Q&A: Exclusive Interview with Baby Yoga’s Lena Fokina

Lena Fokina: either she just killed dinner, or she's doing double baby-yoga

Yep, it’s real.

That was the first thing almost everyone wanted to know about the now-infamous “Baby Yoga with Lena Fokina” video. The swinging, flipping and lariat-like twirling of a tiny infant seemed so surreal—and the baby so unmoved by its plight—that many viewers decided it had to be a hoax.

I had a hard time watching the video, too. But I was not at all surprised that it was Russian. I’ve been going to Moscow since 1990 (I now write about Russia for Time Magazine), and I have found a Russian obsession with physical hardiness that goes far beyond pictures of Putin fishing topless. I remember going with my brother to a Soviet sanatorium—what they used to call their spa-resorts—in 1990 and finding that the main treatment there was standing in a stainless steel room while a technician sprayed us with what felt like a fire hose. A friend I’ve known for over 20 years in Moscow got baptized last year in the countryside—not in a church with a splash of water, but by stripping in the middle of a frozen lake and jumping into an ice-fishing hole while the priest looked on.

But “baby yoga,” and its corollary, dunking-a-newborn-in-the-ocean, is not just another act of toughening. The more I looked into it, the more I realized that in a certain milieu of alterna-Russians, the parents who do this are sort of like Slavic Tiger Mothers: hyperinvolved parents who want to give their child a leg up in life. “I wanted the best for my daughter,” says my friend Ivan, who baby-swung his firstborn after hearing about it in a Moscow birthing class. “So we started when she was five days old.” Seven years later, he says, she’s not only healthy, she’s fearless and advanced beyond her peers: “She started walking early, swimming early. I really think it worked.”

[The original video]

I thought if I showed Ivan this video, he would be shocked by how extreme this particular bout of baby-swinging was. Instead, he watched it like Rowlf the Dog watched Two Girls, One Cup: meh, no big deal. It is, he said, pretty much what he did with his daughter.

Until I see some peer-reviewed studies about this, I’ll leave it to others to decide whether swinging a barely conscious newborn over your shoulders does more good than harm. But I am pleased to say that we’ve tracked down the baby in the video, and she seems to be doing just fine. (Follow DadWagon on Facebook)

Still swinging: the baby from the viral video, Platona, shown here with her father, Sashka Goryun, two years after the video came out

The baby, it turns out, is a girl named Platona Goryun, who lives in Khorol, Ukraine, about three hours outside of Kiev. She was just two weeks old when she was subjected to what Fokina calls “dynamic gymnastics” for newborns in the video above. Her father, Sashka Goryun, uploaded the video just a month ago, but apparently it was filmed almost two years ago. Little Platona is, by all appearances, a healthy toddler, albeit one who still gets swung in the air quite a bit (see our baby-yoga gallery for more images of Platona and her father).

DadWagon also managed to track down Lena Fokina, the Baby Yoga guru from the original video. Fokina Skype-chatted with us from her home in Dahab, Egypt, in the Sinai Peninsula, where she lives with her daughters (who not only survived baby-swinging but also grew up to be ridiculously attractive freedive instructors, pictured below and in our photo-gallery). Fokina was generous with her time and spoke at length about family freediving, slothful Americans, and the salutary effects of being swung over your mother’s head. The interview was done in Russian and translated into English:

Thank you for chatting with DadWagon, Lena. Can you tell us first a little about yourself: where you come from, how you came to do baby yoga.
I come from far away; my homeland is in the Urals. I then lived in Moscow, and now I’m in Dahab, Egypt, my “little homeland.” We came here four years ago, and go back to Russia in the summers. As for yoga, yoga is just life, whether you are an adult or a child.

How old are you?
I’m 50, but that’s only the appearance.

Tanya Fokina, Lena's daughter, swimming in the Gulf of Aqaba with her nephew Kristian

Tell me about the courses you run in Egypt.
Our courses in Dahab are a regime of daily exercise for children and adults of different ages: yoga, extreme developmental gymnastics, freediving, getting adapted to the water, rebirthing, lectures, discussions and much more.

Um, what exactly are “extreme developmental gymnastics”
That’s what we call it when it gets scary for the parents and children and me
(just kidding). It’s actually skipping rope, climbing, all sorts of flips, trampoline, stretching…

I do Ashtanga yoga, but I’ve never heard of anything like this Baby Yoga. Is this traditional or did you invent it?
Life invented it; it was conveyed to us by the teacher and author of all these ideas, Igor Borisovich Charkovsky.

So this is a uniquely Russian form of yoga.
This yoga is for all young children.

Are your students all Russians?
Of course not!

So where do they come from?
Over the last 30 years, Charkovsky’s system has lived in Russia and has spread from there. Not everyone accepts it.

The first thing everybody here thought when they saw your baby-swinging video was “Holy shit!” Then they thought, is it real or fake? So: Is it real? If so, who is the baby?
The child was born in the Black Sea region. Her name is Platona, and she was two weeks old when we took that video. We have a lot of children like her here. They are early readers, singers, talkers, swimmers. You haven’t seen anything like it anywhere!! And there’s swimming with dolphins, scuba diving with them… Come to Dahab! (Photos of Lena and her daughters in Dahab.)

And are they early readers, talkers, and so on because of baby yoga?
Not only this. It’s just one reason.

What else makes them so talented then?
Love for each other and to one another.

I have two small children and I was, you know, careful with them when they were newborns. So it was hard for me to watch your video. It looks like it has to injure the child. Their hands? The cartilage in the joints? Their brains?
No. It makes the hands stronger.

Did you know that YouTube took the video down because it was in violation of their policy on “shocking and disgusting” content? What is your response to that?
Did they notice that the babies aren’t crying—they’re even laughing—and that this system has been used for over thirty years in Russia and the children are all alive and healthy? If you need more proof, the best thing is to come see us.

Have you heard from people who are upset about the video?
Everybody in Dahab is satisfied. What’s more, a British film crew made a documentary about us, and interviewed the parents.

At the end of your video, it looks like you’re trying to get the two-week-old baby to walk. Is mobility the goal of your baby yoga?
Yes, more mobility, and other goals. First off, more trained skills. Second, more freedom. Third, independence. We learn from nature and teach our offspring to survive. Come to Dahab; we’ll be glad to show our classes and our children. How old are your children?

Four and two years old.
The happiest age!

Da, da. You say you “teach offspring to survive,” but it looks like what you’re doing could kill them. Have you ever had an accident while swinging around a baby?
I don’t recall any. Another objective of our yoga: to teach parents and children to interact so that everything will be in harmony.

How much training do you need to do this baby yoga?
It depends on the sensibility of the child’s mother. Sometimes it only takes one training session.

Do you think mothers who are afraid of this kind of baby yoga just aren’t brave?
Yes, those people have problems of their own. One more objective here is to get the parents’ own activity and movement levels up.

Should Americans try “baby yoga” at home?
Americans should be able to do a lot of this themselves, in order to pass something on to their children. An immobile American loses their naturally given reflexes (swimming, reaching, stepping—they have machines that do this for them). That’s why, in parallel with their children, the parents learn to do these things: dive, swim, run, jump, bend and much more. Our workshop is called “family active lifestyle.”

It’s true. Some American babies are too obese to swing around over your head.
Well, exactly, then: they need the Russian way of life!

Are there lessons for baby yoga online, or do you have to go to Dahab to learn?
Online is complicated. You have to go to the guru!

You said that the baby in the video was two weeks old. Why start so young? Their bodies are so underdeveloped.
We’re talking about these reflexes they have by nature from birth. They are based in dynamic gymnastics.

Did you know that this video went viral in the United States, that there was a lot of speculation about who you and the baby were?
We know. So what? The more people find out about this, the calmer and healthier they’ll become.

I saw that you do courses in the Gulf of Aqaba. What are your “family freediving” courses?
We adapt [children] to the aquatic environment. It’s a variety of exercises for breath, swimming and diving equipment, diving at depth and free-swimming along the reef and enjoying the stunning underwater spectacle.

Hmm. I grew up near the reef in Florida. It can be amazing.
Oh, we dream of free-swimming with wild dolphins! Do you know Boris Said?

We have a lot of dolphins, but I don’t know Boris. Who is he?
He studies wild dolphins in Florida and swims with them. Children and dolphins is another big topic of Charkovsky’s.

So my children are 4 and 2 years old, but they don’t know how to swim yet. What would you do with them in Dahab?
We would get them slowly accustomed to life.

Life in general or life in the water?
Life in general. And in the water. If you can organize a seminar, gather people, arrange a space, we’ll come.

Good idea! [ed. note: this may actually be a very bad idea] I noticed in some of your videos that some women in your courses are topless. Does this create problems with the Egyptians? When I was in Hurgada, another Egyptian resort, I noticed nudity was a big problem for Egyptians.
Each country has its own traditions and you have account for that. Don’t take your own prayers into someone else’s church. So we do not wear bikinis. This is a Muslim country. Some women here even wear a niqab.

Have you ever had any legal problems in Egypt? In Russia?
I never have. I love people.

But authorities are different. They never gave you any problems for the Baby Yoga?
We are humanists! And we don’t do anything wrong. On the contrary, many Egyptian parents learn these techniques and go diving, in their niqab, with us.

So the answer is ‘no’? Because in the United States, Baby Yoga might cause you some problems.
So then we are better off in Dahab! Come visit! Thank you!

Yes. I know it’s late. Just one more question: what is the name of the English film made about you?
“дети стихии” (approximate translation: “Children of the Wild”).

For more information on Lena Fokina’s courses, visit www.fokiny.com (in Russian).

To follow DadWagon on Facebook, click here. Also swinging kids on Twitter @dadwagon.

Published by Nathan

Nathan Thornburgh is a contributing writer and former senior editor at TIME Magazine who has also written for the New York Times, newyorker.com and, of course, the Phnom Penh Post. He suspects that he is messing up his kids, but just isn’t sure exactly how.

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151 Comments

  1. There is a passage in “Anna Karenina” where Levin is describing how a serf believed she cured her child’s illness by placing him in a chicken coop and reciting an incantation. I don’t think the scientific method has made much further inroads since then. And I don’t mean to focus that comment on Russia; the human mind is stuck with these hiccups and shortcuts of perception and rationalization.

  2. Ha. I was hoping you would bring the Tolstoy into this. Levin was definitely the kind of science-minded rationalist that would, say, not be a big Charkovsky fan these days.

  3. Glad to help, Levin also has my favorite agricultural metaphor for parenting, and life .

    what the hell is up with this gumshoe original reporting? I don’t think you’ve got this Blogging thing down. When you see a viral video, you should just start spouting off opinions like it’s MSNBC and the on-air light just turned on. No wonder you guys are only a little better than the average blog.

  4. Fascinating. Thank you for posting this!

    Someone I know on Flickr used “Early Neurological Stimulation” with their Icelandic shepherd dogs, a technique that seems to have a lot of similarities with this baby swinging stuff. The basic idea with dogs is that it stimulates their brain growth in such a way that they become especially confident, fearless and intelligent dogs. I found it especially interesting that the ‘regimen’ of training essentially took my friend less than 15 seconds or so with each puppy. So it had an effect without lengthy baby swinging sessions, I suppose.

    I would love to know more about connections between these two techniques! Now we need an expert in early neurological stimulation to write an article to follow up on this meme…

  5. Awesome post man — I meant to go to bed, but instead almost woke up everyone in the house. I quickly buried my face in a blanket to muffle the cackling. I think Bonnie and Lucy are too old (and smart) to be flung around. On second thought, Lucy would probably love it. At any rate, ewok #3 is arriving soon.

  6. This is ignorance at it’s finest. What are her qualifications? Does she know the difference between a newborn’s body and an adult’s body? Obviously she does not because if she did she would KNOW (not “believe”) that swinging children from their arms is a big NO NO because their arms can EASILY be pulled out of their sockets. What a joke! And the dangers of not offering head and neck support are obvious. If you want to be a circus act that is fine. But don’t include inocent newborn children in your mental illness. The reason this doesn’t fly in America is because we know better and don’t have to use our children as props to get attention and recognition. I spit on you and your stupid ideas. You are a stupid, stupid woman.

  7. “The reason this doesn’t fly in America is because we know better and don’t have to use our children as props to get attention and recognition”

    Have you SEEN Toddlers And Tiaras???

  8. Jesse, I do the Early Neurological Stimulation exercises
    with any puppies born here to moms who are too pregnant to spay
    when they arrive. Here’s a link to the article “Developing High
    Achievers” by Dr. Carmen Battaglia, which explains what ENS is:
    http://www.esmondrott.com/rearing.htm You will note that none of
    the exercises put any physical stress on limbs, joints, etc., or
    put the puppies in any physical danger whatsoever. They’re simple,
    short (3-5 seconds per exercise) exercises which
    cause a small amount of stress, leading to neurological development
    that occurs a little earlier than it would otherwise. In my
    experience, most puppies who receive the benefit of the ENS
    exercises grow into dogs who are adaptable, who recover from being
    startled/frightened quickly, who learn quickly, and are generally
    more confident, less bark-y, healthier, and more even tempered than
    puppies who aren’t stimulated. I say “most” because temperament in
    dogs is genetic, and sire or dam with a poor temperament passes
    that along to their offspring and even ENS can’t change that,
    though it can influence it. It takes 15-25 seconds per pup, per
    day, for 10-12 days to do the ENS exercises. It gives the pups such
    a strong foundation, and can have such a profound effect on their
    future lives that, IMO, it’s unethical NOT to do them with newborn
    pups. If you want to see how it’s done, I recorded an ENS session
    with some puppies back in August:
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8814652

  9. Lena Fokina does not own the label “Baby Yoga”. There are many baby yoga teachers in the world, myself included, who don’t swing babies around. Since this is your blog, you are of course entitled to present this one interview from one perspective. I’m horrified though that TIME linked to your piece without any further reporting. One only needs to google to find a host of other kids and baby yoga resources and information. I will be blogging about this on my blog and Open Salon, because as both a journalist and a certified yoga teacher specializing in kids and babies, I don’t want everyone to go away thinking this is definitive.

  10. As I told a friend- Shes whacked. If she did that to my baby I would be forced to do that to HER … from thousands of feet UP… They have little joints and bones. This stresses them. What a fruitcake.

  11. Well, horror does seem a slightly strong reaction to the fact that TIME linked to this piece. But I hear your point: it’s not yoga. In fact, I say in the piece that she calls it “developmental gymnastics”. But everyone’s been calling it ‘baby yoga’ because that’s the title of the original video that went viral. I should add that I’m signing my four-year-old up for yoga, so I’m a big fan of yoga for kids. Just not like this.

  12. My goodness, but we are all so opinionated, aren’t we? Particularly Kate – “But don’t include inocent (sic) newborn children in your mental illness. The reason this doesn’t fly in America is because we know better and don’t have to use our children as props to get attention and recognition. I spit on you and your stupid ideas. You are a stupid, stupid woman.”

    While the video WAS disturbing to watch, because of our own cultural messages, I found myself trying to imagine what that baby was feeling. And what I felt was, trust in the world to support me, ease in the air and in my body, and no sense that the world would let me down. Granted, I was not the baby, but my body is well trained to interpret sensations. And the messages my body was giving me throughout that video was yearning – for the kind of confidence I would have in myself and my world with this kind of experience at such an early age.

    The other thing that struck me was the absolute ballet this woman showed with her routine. She was 100% focused on the relationship between herself and that baby. There was no “gee, what shall I make for dinner”, or “when is that $%#& parent going to pay their bill? distractions. Her body and that child’s body were dancing together, and she exuded the feeling that she had that child’s best interest at heart, and showed an exquisite confidence in her ability to keep that baby safe.

    The Russians have been exploring and pushing the envelope on the human body for decades. Unless you can find some of the babies she has “swung”, and prove that they are somehow harmed by her work, please refrain from your bitter vitriol. If we were so smart about babies, why do we have one of the highest infant mortality rates in developed countries? Why do we have one of the highest teen suicides in the world? Because we’re so freakin’ smart? I don’t think so.

    My next lifetime, I want me some of that swinging!! And free diving. And I am sending this to my daughter to see what she would think about the idea of having this kind of training included in her childhood.

  13. Consider just for a moment she loses her grip while doing one of her big swings in that video, then those rocks close by will most certainly smash the baby’s skull and brain.
    Ok, maybe it won’t happen considering she looks like she has a firm grip, but any parent willing to put their baby at the increased risk of getting killed by swinging it around, I feel kinda sorry for. Actually I feel more sorry for the baby who doesn’t have the ability to say no.

    To conclude: “In Soviet Russia, baby swings you!”

  14. I watched that video on FB and then researched until finding this blog. While the video caught my interest, I found it so interesting, not only this women seems to know what she’s doing but Platona seems at ease and confident. I can’t stop thinking in the kind of relation it would promote between a mother and her child. While my feelings were initially mixed at the time of watching the video, it then makes a lot of sense to me. I have no doubt that these exercises have a great impact on the child and contribute to develop a special ability to evolve in any environment.

    To finsish and regarding the ignorant and negative comments, ask yourself what it is best: practising baby yoga and stimulating your child for a stronger and healthier development or feed him with coca cola, mc donald, tv and video games.

    And to DadWagon, thank you for this interview with Lena, good job! To the others, don’t do this at home!

  15. Pingback: BABY YOGA VIDEO
  16. I guess it’s true that if no one has any proof that she’s dislocated shoulders or otherwise harmed babies.. We should all just take it down a notch. I saw the video and completely thought it was a hoax; swore it was a doll. Yeah. I’m pretty freaked out by the idea… but hey…
    To each their own?

  17. Are all russians this batsh*t crazy?

    Shaking baby syndrome and dislocated body parts not to mention that newborns have highly reactive shock reflexes and that jarring movements scare the bejesus outta them.

    Is russian society so lax in protecting it’s children that they don’t track down and prosecute this woman for child endangerment and neglect?

    Caterina linking this dangerous swinging to low mortality rates and a lesser risk of teen suicide is just ignorant. And Caterina before you go gungho in defense of this woman speak to a pediatrician, even a homeopathic pediatrician and see if they recommend this violent barbaric mistreatment of an infant child. And as long as time has been babies have learned to swim, walk, talk and read without being abused.

  18. I love her attitude, confident and unapologetic. I have no doubt in her abilities to swing the babies while still being gentle. The first thing that came to mind is that it is partly common sense mainly because I am one of those uncles that likes to pick up the nieces and nephews and throw them in the air or swing them around etc. When my good friend had his first baby it always seemed odd to me that he didn’t play with him in the same way. Just seems natural to me for some reason. I can see how making it a disciplined daily routine would benefit.

  19. Caterina is the only poster that has a clue.
    The irony of fat, apathetic Americans aghast at people doing other than sucking on a slurpee and watching the tube.
    No, America, you are not this ‘enlighened’ scientific utopia. As a matter of fact America ranks below the median for school test scores, with only Canada and Finland able to compete with Asian countries.
    As Caterina has pointed out, the Russians are always investigating new methodologies, and good for them. Both of that Yoga instructor’s daughters are hale, athletic, confident, beautiful and talented. Seems she’s done quite well rearing them.

  20. This woman should be brought of up child endangerment charges… omg. One slip and that baby is dead or brain damaged… and you CANNOT tell me that is 100% safe… humans make mistakes… and ppl should NOT be doing that with babies.

  21. WARNING: This woman is a maniac and should not be trusted with babies!

    Anyone interested in trying this should consult a physician first and request a psychiatric evaluation, but for yourself, not the baby.

  22. Goodness!! There’s no way I will do that to my child. What if there was accident? What if one wrong move happens? I can’t imagine the injury that the baby might incur. She’s lucky enough that there was no child that was harmed in that crazy baby yoga, or at least none that we know yet.

  23. Whether the baby trusts her, or is having a good time, is not the point. We do plenty of things to babies they don’t like (ever suction mucous out with a bulb?) for their benefit (not that I’m saying this is for their benefit). What she hasn’t done here is apply a standard of harm: On the one hand, you have nebulous ideas this may help a baby; on the other, the very real risk of not only damaging them through swinging, but via a little “whoopsie!”

    This is no different from an anti-vaccine proselytizer–pure voodoo.

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